6 good reasons to STOP selling on eBay

Just four days short of eight years ago [! Ed.] I wrote "Fed up with eBay? There IS an alternative!" (WWW 12/11/13). It was the third or fourth in a series detailing the frustrations and pitfalls of buying/selling on eBay and dealing with its then partner, PayPal. One might think that the self-proclaimed leader in the online auction/sales market would try to raise its customer satisfaction level, but empirical and anecdotal evidence suggests the opposite.

This is what I've heard from a long-time follower who didn't heed my advice but continued selling on eBay until this spring when he finally weaned himself off that addiction. I should point out that the complainant [This sounds like a legal document! Ed.] is not running a business, trying to make a lot of money. He's jus an old guy who's got a houseful of junk which he's trying to dispose of to eke out his retirement income.

Here, from our disgruntled reader and other sources, are 5 good reasons to close your eBay account and find another place to buy and sell online.

1. eBay's new(ish) "managed payments system"

eBay used to own PayPal, which meant that money paid by purchasers through PayPal went straight into the seller's PayPal account. PayPal deducted a service charge immediately, and eBay billed the seller for their commission as well as insertion and other fees. So sellers lost up to 20% of the money they expected to get.

Now eBay has divested itself of PayPal and is forcing sellers into their managed payments sytem. That means giving eBay access to the seller's bank account, so that payments can be deposited directly, after deduction of eBay's ever-increasing fees. And payments will no longer be transferred immediately, but after a delay of, typically, a week.

2. Buyers now have to deal with eBay (only) to get their money back

Under the old payments system, if you bought something on eBay and didn't get what you paid for, or were dissatisfied, you could get your money back after going through a long and tortuous "customer service" process with eBay. 

If eBay found your complaint was justified, they would direct PayPal (which they owned, remember) to give your money back. 

You could also start the process by filing a dispute through your PayPal account. PayPal would buck it over to eBay, so it still took time.

Now that eBay has cut PayPal out of its "system", you have no choice but to complain to eBay and allow weeks for their system to deal with it. Your refund will come out of money they haven't yet paid to the vendor.

The only good news in that, for buyers, is that eBay almost always takes the buyer's side, even where the seller can make a good argument that they're being scammed by a buyer who says they never got the goods. How can you prove that? That's why a lot of sellers refuse to ship to south Asia or Africa.

3. eBay are now acting as tax collectors

American and Canadian governments -- federal, state and provincial -- have been itching for years to grab a chunk of all that money that's changing hands through online transactions, especially those that cross borders. eBay has caved under political pressure, and now charges sales tax, rated according to the residence of the buyer.

For example, suppose you live in New York state and buy something from a vendor in Ontario, Canada. The applicable tax in Ontario would be 13%, but the tax rate on foreign sales is 0.00% -- no tax. All the same, eBay will add the NY tax to your invoice.

4. And they snitch on you to your government

There are a lot of people and corporations doing business -- big business -- on the Internet. And yes, it's only fair that they should pay taxes on their profits, just like the bricks-and-mortar stores. But, there are also 1000s of people like the old guy described in the second paragraph above, trying to turn their junk into cash. Should they have to give Uncle Sam (or Mr Socks) a cut of the pittance they get for collectibles, craft items and suchlike, on which they make next to nothing after they pay eBay's commission and other fees?

Put it another way... Suppose you cleaned out your attic and held a garage sale or a yard sale. Would you be happy if, at the end of the day, an agent of the IRS or CRA came to your door to collect the sales and income taxes -- part of the money you got for selling your "treasures" -- which they would then give to such needy folks as illegal immigrants?

Under its managed payments system, eBay now has access to not just your sales records, but your banking information. They can and will give that information to the government on request, and if you think the government won't ask, LOL.

5. eBay's customer service sucks

See that meme above? eBay's customer service is actually worse than that! The chances of your having a phone conversation with a real person are slim and none. If you have a question or complaint and click on any of the "help" links, you will be directed to a list of possible problems, then to page after page of "solutions", which you've likely already tried or aren't relevant. 

You can go around in circles like that for hours. If you look hard enough, you might find an e-mail form which you can submit, but good luck with finding a phone number, and if you do somehow find a contact number, be prepared to be "on hold forever".

Before "managed payments", if you were dealing with PayPal, you could (with slightly less difficulty) contact their payment resolution centre or help desk, and you eventually got an answer. PayPal's bias is also towards buyers, but at least sellers get a chance to tell their side of the story.

6. There are alternatives

Our assiduous reader has looked at and tried a number of alternatives and has come up with four that can be recommended. None of them has as big a "reach" as eBay, but all of them are better than dealing with the Big Tech monster.

Etsy Inc. - American e-commerce company focused on handmade or vintage items and craft supplies. These items fall under a wide range of categories, including jewelry, bags, clothing, home décor and furniture, toys, art, as well as craft supplies and tools. Not so strong on collectibles (stamps. coins, comics etc). Has its own managed payments system, with the same drawbacks as eBay's.

Webstore - US-based FREE online marketplace. Free, how? Webstore is currently supported by donations and ad revenues. They say they are "operated as a free public service so that our members may benefit from a professional, feature filled, FREE community in which to buy and sell goods and services without all the common fees of most auction sites and online marketplaces." Website cluttered and clunky, but user support is very good (according to our reader), with text exchanges with a real named person.

Delcampe - European website launched in 2000, "to provide a suitable environment for collectors to buy and sell their collectibles." More than 180 nationalities are present on the site, 1000s of new collectibles are being listed every day. Claims over a million active users, but little-known in USA. Easy-to-use site. Has its own managed payment method, but doesn't insist you use it.

eBid - British company created in 1998. It markets itself as an eBay competitor with the main difference being the vast difference in fees charged to sellers. If you sign up for a lifetime membership fees are minimal or even free if you settle for limited options. Very user-friendly site. They leave it up to you if you want to charge sales tax, and let you receive payment through PayPal (or whatever). They claim a monthly average of 8 million page impressions, and a daily traffic volume of around 60,000 visitors, but that's still just a fraction of the business eBay does in a single day.

So there you have it, folks. If you buy and sell online, don't put up with the hassles of eBay one second longer. Consider the alternatives and if you're scared to leave eBay, remember that there's no law that says you can only use one e-commerce platform! 

Walt also recommends SaleHoo, "a powerful research tool, supplier directory, and online community for dropshippers, wholesalers, and e-commerce stores." If you've never sold online and don't know where or how to start, this is the place to learn.

eBay and PayPal -- complaints mount

Here's a follow-up on "eBay seller screwed by scammer thanks to 'buyer protection'". The reader who took one in the shorts as a result of eBay's (and Paypal's) one-sided "buyer protection policy" sent his complaint to Benchmark Reviews, where it appeared in a long thread entitled "How to Cheat eBay Sellers and Scam PayPal".

If you're selling on eBay or doing business of any kind through PayPal, you should read the experiences that others have had. Walt's followers will notice that has taken down the "please donate" widget. We want nothing more to do with PayPal.

In closing our account, we found out something interesting. If you close a PayPal account that has a credit balance -- money PayPal owes you -- they won't send it to you if it's a relatively small amount. Instead (they say) they'll donate your money to an "internationally recognized charity".

eBay seller screwed by scammer thanks to "buyer protection"

One of Walt's readers, who prefers to remain anonymous [but we know who you are! Ed.] has a complaint about eBay's one-sided, anti-seller "buyer protection". According to this disgruntled seller, it's far too easy for overseas scammers to use eBay's bias for buyers to screw sellers and get free stuff. Here's how the scam works.

The seller lists an item on eBay and offers to ship worldwide. An overseas buyer -- in India, let's say -- wins the item and pays for it, plus shipping and handling. If the buyer refuses to pay extra for registration and proof of delivery, the item is shipped by unregistered small packet airmail, for which there's no tracking number.

The buyer/scammer waits a couple of weeks, then lodges a claim with eBay's so-called Resolution Center, stating he did not receive the item and wants his money back. Of course he has no proof one way or the other, nor does the seller. You can't prove something did not happen. So it's up to eBay to decide who it believes.

eBay asks the seller to provide a tracking number. Here's the Catch-22. On shipments overseas -- let's say to India -- proof of delivery can't be obtained even if there is a tracking number, because of the vagaries of foreign postal systems. Not to mention theft by postal workers which is all too common in the third world.

In any case, all you can do with the tracking number is show that the item was entered in the mail in the USA or Canada. eBay will never receive a tracking confirmation from the destination post office, and thus will never get proof of delivery even if the item has arrived.

So... eBay's Resolution Center closes the case in favour of the buyer -- always in favour of the buyer -- because a tracking number cannot be supplied or proof of delivery obtained. eBay's response to the unhappy seller? "That's tough. You should have got a tracking number"... even if the cost of registering the item is more than the value of the item and the buyer won't pay for it.

Not only does eBay give the poor innocent buyer his money back, he gets the shipping and handling charge refunded too! The seller is cheated out of his item, plus the out-of-pocket S&H.

Walt has Googled "eBay buyer protection abuse" and found numberous complaints of this nature against eBay, its buyer protection policy and its Resolution Center. A real problem with the Resolution Center seems to be getting a real person to respond to e-mails.

The only way to speak to a real person seems to be by telephone -- yes, a toll-free number is provided -- but the standard response seems to be to stand on the buyer protection policy which is totally biased against sellers. No proof of delivery = seller loses.

This has been going on for years (judging by dates of complaints published on the Net) yet eBay still takes the buyer's side every time, even though it knows the system is being scammed.

Worse yet, since eBay and PayPal have common ownership, eBay can and does take the "refund" out of the seller's PayPal account before a case is decided, sometimes even before the seller is notified of a complaint.

And still worse, if eBay's charging the seller's PayPal account throws the account into the red, the seller can't close either his eBay account or his PayPal account until the situation is "resolved". There is no appeal, no recourse, nothing for an aggrieved seller to do but grit his teeth and pay up, just to get off the eBay/PayPal books!

Footnote: eBay has announced, just this month, that it is changing its policy to be a little more fair to sellers, and a little more sceptical about "didn't-get-my-stuff" claims from overseas buyers. Wonder if they'll make the new policy retroactive! Chances of that happening? Slim and none! Lifetime pct .986.

Postscript: Walt wonders why Agent 3 or some other lawyer isn't advertising for claimants for a class action lawsuit against eBay. Sue the bastards, I say!

Don't shop.nhl.com

This is a "Reebok Montreal Canadiens Women's Swirl Girl Long Sleeve Layered T-Shirt". That's what it says on the shop.nhl.com website. Agent 78 is a Habs fan and she wanted one. So she ordered one from the website, without checking out the online reviews. Here's what happened.

The package was delivered by courier within a week or so. Not bad. Shipping costs added around 8 bucks to the cost, but they told her that when she ordered, so fair enough.

When she opened the package, the shirt enclosed turned out to be red. Red is the Habs colour, but the website didn't say anything about a choice of colours. Even if it did, Agent 78 wanted the dark blue. To make matters worse, the cotton was not quite thick enough to be called flimsy. Says she, "I've seen thicker Kleenex."

What to do? Since Agent 78 had paid by credit card, Walt said just call the bank and tell them you're sending it back and would they please reverse the charge. Whoa!!! said the bank. You have to give the company a chance to make good.

So Agent 78 e-mailed shop.nhl.com's customer service. Not getting any response after a couple of days, she phoned them. Thank goodness for 800 numbers, she says, because after a considerable wait she got hold of someone who, without too much of a fight, said they would e-mail a shipping label which 78 could print out and use to return the item by the same courier.

A week goes by. No e-mail, no shipping label. So 78 phones them again.
Service Rep (so-called): "You want to return something?"
78: "Yes, I'm not satisfied with the 'Reebok Montreal Canadiens Women's Swirl Girl Long Sleeve Layered T-Shirt' you sent me."
SR: "What's wrong with it?"
78: "It's red."
SR: "Well it only comes in red."
78: "But on the website it's shown in blue and it doesn't say anything about red."
SR: "Are you sure?"
78: "[expletive deleted]! I'm looking right at the [expletive deleted] thing."
SR: "Just a minute... ... ... ... oh ... ... ..."

I'll spare you the rest of the transcript, the part in which SR says they'll e-mail 78 a shipping label because it seems the first one is, err, still being processed. Suffice it to say that, after another couple of days, the e-mail comes. Agent 78 packs up the garment, but El Courier Cheapo won't come and collect it. She has to take it to their drop-off point at Business Deport. It's only a 10-minute drive, so OK, she does it.

A week goes by. The courier website shows the package having been dispatched, but that's all. After another two days, Agent 78 calls the bank. The bank's SR won't take 78's word for it and says she will call shop.nhl.com herself. Go ahead, says 78.

After the banker calls the secret number only to find it out of service, she coughs up the credit to Agent 78's card. Every penny, including the taxes and shipping charges. This was in December, well before Christmas. All's well that ends well, thought 78.

Imagine her surprise, then, to receive only today an e-mail from shop.nhl.com! We've got your returned item, it says, and we're going to give you a refund of $28.46, only $8.99 less than you paid. Apparently the difference is the shipping charge.

Now Agent 78 asks Walt what she should do next. Walt passes the question along to you, gentle reader. Answers on the back of a postage stamp, please, to the usual address.

Postscript: Click here to read "shop.nhl.com sucks!" on RedFlagDeals.com. And don't buy anything from an online vendor without checking them out. If you pay by credit card or PayPal, they might bail you out, but it'll take time and aggravation.